Monday, April 23, 2007

Why don't men ask out women?!!

So the results are in...56% of you voted that men don't ask out women because THEY DON'T HAVE GUTS! The other 44% of you said MEN ARE TOO PICKY. I'm guessing that the men confessed to having no guts, while most of the women suspected they are too picky. :) That's the way Dave and I voted at least. While I do agree with the fact that men usually don't have enough guts to ask women out, I think the larger problem is that they're just too darn picky! You can't all carry a torch for the Miss Americas or Jennifer Anistons of the world. Be realistic! What about the rest of us? And if you are going to ask out a Miss America, then we'll talk about having guts!

Come on guys, a date isn't a marriage proposal! Why does it have to be such a big deal to ask a woman out? Why do you have to decide you're madly in love with us before you ask us out? What ever happened to dating to get to know one another? Can we please go back to 1955? Men, pony up and start getting to know some members of the opposite sex! Women just want a chance to get to know you and see if they're even interested in you! Did you think about that? We'd like a larger selection of men to choose from. We're not as desperate to get married as you think we are. We like dating. We want to date. But unfortunately, we have to wait around for you to ask us!


CHAVDA said...

Of course women will say that men are too picky. But it's just b.s. Women say that because of their own insecurities about their own looks, personality, etc. Truth is, a gal makes herself halfway-decent and actually gives a guy meaningful signals (because we aren't mind readers), they'll probably get asked out. Guys are indeed scared of asking girls out, but that's only because guys want sex and girls want a lifetime commitment. Every self-respecting girl I know has been fantiscising about their wedding since they were six. That's a hell of a lot of pressure. How about girls just backing off a bit and getting more interested in having a good time? Just don't give me this "picky" crap. I've watched enough Jerry Springer to know that the fattest, whoriest, mayonaise and wonder bread-eatingest gal can land a reasonably attractive guy if she puts herself out there. Yeah, and let's go back to 1955! That way I can only date girls of the same skin color as me! Yay! On second thought, they probably wouldn't let me join the country club...

Slothboy said...

Hello Mouse. The various tubes of the internet have deposited me here, mainly by an accidental click on a link on the Fogelson blog.

I rarely asked women out due to a couple things. A) My own insecurity/fear. It is scary to let someone know that you are attracted to them. Also, since I went to a Christian college (no, not multnomah) I found that B)there was no such thing as a girl interested in causal dating. (I'm not even talking about sex, Chav) I asked one of my friends out on a date once because I was starting to like her as more than a friend and I got a three page email response about her not being ready for a long term relationship and blah blah blah. My response? "I didn't ask you to marry me."

So, I'd echo what you said there in your bloggy thing, except that it is the girls that will only date a guy if they think he has the potential to be a husband, at least in my experience. Guys know this and if they just want to get to know a girl a bit more to see if there is any chemistry, he hesitates to ask her out because she will either say "yes" expecting a relationship immediately or "no" because she doesn't like him well enough to marry him.

I'm married now, and happily, but I always felt that if people dated casually more often they would make better husbands and wives. It is through our interaction with other humans that we learn how to deal with the challenges of a long term relationship.

Mouse said...

Slothboy, thank you! I totally agree we need more casual/RESPECTFUL dating! Right on! Chav, you and Slothboy are right about women looking for a longterm relationship/husband - that is a lot of pressure. I think we agree on that. But I still think, if you weren't so picky, you'd have more dates and we could all make a little PROGRESS! :)

slothboy said...

I've got a mirror and a good sense of reality.

I was never picky.


CHAVDA said...

Oh, hey don't get me wrong. I never said anything about RESPECTFUL dating.

Brian said...

Um...I don't ask girls out because I'm married. I think that's a pretty good reason, and it wasn't on the list of options.

Of the single guys I know, half are afraid of rejection and the other half are too picky. I don't see it as a big problem, however, since I've got issues with modern American dating anyway.

Oh yeah, and Chavda, I read your post with interest until the statement, "I've watched enough Jerry Springer to know that..." You lost all cred with me right there.

Anonymous said...

Why stop at 1955, why not go back to the 16th century? Take away all of women's rights such as land ownership, voting, and working at a company. Instead have them stay at home, cook, clean, raise children, and be a servant to their husband!

Come on people this is the 21st century why do people act like a man has to do everything when women are just as equal to men. Women want all these rights but when it comes to asking a man they say "I will leave that up to the man". I think women should take equal part in the asking, but I doubt that will ever happen since women have so many insecurities.

Cory said...

It always surprises me how little women know of the truth :)

The MORE a man likes a woman, the MORE likely he is to NOT ask her out.

Men ussually ask out the women they are only barely attracted to, because the rejection won't hurt.

I've seen the most obese, most deformed, most unkempt of women getting one male model after another.


They just make the move.

Men are generally sick and tired of doing everything. Even these male models (you'd be surprised) never ever get asked out by a semi-decent woman, so they settle for the fatties.

Men aren't picky. Every study in existence has shown the opposite. Women are picky.

Men will date with any woman who will take them. But they're generally sick and tired of all the pressure.

What a man thinks of when he meets you:

"oh god she's cute, and maybe she likes me"
"But what if she rejects me"
"Oh god no, like that jennifer"
"but she's cute"
"But maybe she was just being nice, she wasn't flirting?"

What a woman thinks the man is thinking:

"Well, her nose isn't totally straight"
"She's not tall enough, and she used the wrong spelling for that word over there"...

Screw that. That's not reality :) Men aren't picky, they're just tired of getting rejected.

A man will get rejected 7 out of 10 times he asks a woman out (no matter how certain he is of her interest)... And 3-4 of those will be painful and rude rejections.

Take advice from the fatties and start asking men out.

Especially since you have a 90% chance of getting a yes, and a one in a billion chance in getting a rude no.

Anonymous said...

This is just too funny. Lady Libby is saying "Come on you guys - why aren't YOU asking US WOMEN out!!"

Maybe you should stop and ask yourself the question you don't want to ask: why are women NOT asking men out?

Don't give me that crap about "'Women' do ask men out" - meaning one out of every ten thousand approaches.

Who is doing virtually EVERY approach? MEN! Who is taking virtually ALL the rejection? MEN!
Who are treated as a nuisance, weirdos, etc. because they HAVE to approach the opposite sex? MEN.

So stop complaining about us - you cannot be serious. WE are doing OUR part of the deal - WE are the ones actually approaching. But you poor, 'liberated' and 'equal' women, who still hate yourselves and obsess about your looks all the time, are refusing to do YOUR share. Hence millions of women are being beaten up by their boy'friends' right now, somewhere or other on Earth, and thousands of women will be murdered by their boy'friends' and husbands, this year alone.

Because you would literally rather DIE than ask a man out.

Your 'choice' of men is minute, compared to the number of men you could choose from, if you women actually did all the approaching.

I find this the most amusing thing in the world to do - just ask women (in real life) why they don't ask men out. Don't say "Why don't YOU ask men out", say "So, why don't women ask men out", and watch them shit themselves with fear. They will make excuses, they will do anything, but actually look at the question properly. Because they know they are in the wrong, and they know they hate themselves, no matter how attractive YOU think they are, they hate themselves.

The proof of this is in the fact that attractive women (10s) are no more likely to ask a man out, than unattractive women. You would have thought that any woman who is a 10 would be getting so much constant feedback from men in general, AND the man she wants to ask out (unless he is literally blind) that it would be EASY to ask a man out. Hell, imagine a hot babe with massive breasts who is standing near you, and you are staring at her breasts. Does she think that if she comes up and asks you to go on a date with her, that you're going to say NO? Of course not. Yet women STILL don't ask men out.

Anonymous said...

Cory is absolutely right: men are NEVER going to be rude to a woman if she asks them out. We never get approached by women! It would be such a surprise, that no matter how unattractive you think you are, the man will always be very polite, purely out of gratitude that ONE woman actually had the courage to show him that she liked him. Men get NO feedback from the opposite sex about our appearance or attractiveness. You could be the most handsome man on Earth, and walk around the busiest shopping centre on Earth, and not one woman would let you see her looking at you, period. Not one woman would approach you, not even smile at you, no matter how 'hot' they thought you were.

Yet it's MEN who know that if they approach a woman, they stand a very high chance of SCARING her, because we know that men attack women, and rape them, whereas the reverse never happens. Yet MEN are expected to be the ones who approach women they don't know, and try to talk to them, in spite of the risk of terrifying you.

The men who care about you, the men who actually give a toss about what you think, and about your feelings, are the very men who aren't going to approach you, because you women refuse to participate in the game, and think it's clever to not let a man know that you like him. Well done. You've just ruined your lives...

And you also notice that women never help each other in this regard. Men have set up 'Pick up artist' websites, and seminars, where they try to help each other at least talk to women, but women would never do this for each other.

The other interesting thing about pick up artists, the Mystery Method, etc. is the fact that a) they sometimes (maybe often) WORK, but worse of all, b) they are NECESSARY at all! They are only necessary because women refuse to participate in the mating game. They think "I'll just sit back, spend 99% of my time obsessing about my weight, my hair, my legs, my breasts, getting plastic surgery and having my body literally mutilated, so that A MAN WILL APPROACH ME. Meanwhile, I'll still be terrified of rejection, unable to approach the man I REALLY want, and will put off all the decent men who WOULD approach me if I gave them half a clue that I liked them. I will end up with a violent scumbag who beats the shit out of me, and I'll keep saying "But I love him""

Does that sound familiar?

Anonymous said...

As a Writer in this modern age I have actually done a fair amount of research into this subject and I happen to agree with the guys here...

Women - you have GOT to be joking!!!

I know lots of females, they're great conversationalists and great sounding-boards for when I have the shits and want someone to listen - but it frightens me just how they think when it comes to their relationships...

My best friend's girl actually admitted to me that she wont suggest a dinner idea, movie outing - or anything for that matter - for the sole reason that if it turns out to be a bad idea, she wont get the blame for it!

This, in my opinion, translates to the very first act of 'asking out'. A woman who asks a guy out - goes out with him then breaks up looks a little foolish to her friends and peers. So how do you avoid this feeling of stupidity? Simple - make it an un-written law that you never have to be the one doing the asking - if you didn't ask, how can u be blamed if it doesn't work?

I once had a female colleague ask me 'Why is chivalry dead?' And my swift and honest reply was, quite simply, 'Feminism killed it.'

How contradictory - you want to be treated like an equal, but still want your chair held out for you - or the door opened for you as you enter the building - equal? I don't do this sort of thing for anyone else!

This is part of the problem though, women hold onto the ANCIENT notion of love and marriage (yes, they most often include the two words together) which, in my opinion, has no relevancy this day in age...

How have we, as a society and an intelligent species, continued to pioneer new and revolutionary ways of thinking - like the earth being round and the earth going round the sun - whilst still clinging to this obvioulsy redundtant idea of 'dating'...??

I feel it is time that we (men AND women) re-wrote the 'rule-book' on love and sex - revised the rules and traditions to compliment our modern society. Those who wish to continue to live in a dream-world where prince charming is going to ride up and sweep you away may continue to do so, but I think all of mankind (and womankind) would benifit from sitting down and saying - 'Hey, that idea is old and no longer applies to our values etc... how about we start TRYING this?'

That's the key word here... TRYING.

If women TRIED to ask men out they'd have thrilling success! But they wont - not ever - because an idea that held true over a thousand years ago is today still considered the ONLY way of doing things...

Little wonder then that men and women have the SAME problems that they had generations ago...

So in closing - let's change the very face of 'love' and 'dating' - lets not even call it that anymore! How about 'discovering'? 'Hi, I noticed you from across the room and I was wondering if you would like to discover more about one another?'

One thing is for sure - until we all decide to change what we know, feel and do about love, there'll perpetually be sites like these...

Anonymous said...

I don't ask out women because I've been rejected so many times that it is really nerve wracking and a frightening experience for me to do so. I like to be sure but never really am.

Bold Girl said...

Well maybe I'm an exception to the rule because I actually have asked men out. I really don't mind doing it. The thing that I've found happens more often then not is the sense that the guy doesn't really like it. It's like they don't have the guts to ask you out, but if you ask them out then it's a slightly desperate thing to do. Truth be told I get really impatient having to wait for a guy to figure it out and get the balls to just ask for my number. If a girl has been talking to you, if she's looking into your eyes, if she is not trying to find her friend or go to the bathroom then she is into you. Ask her for her number. Just do it. And you know what, girls get rejected to. I'm young, educated and attractive and I have been rejected. It happens.

Norm Dawley said...

any women reading any of these comments should ask themselves, "why should men feel any differently about dating than women do?" if you women are wondering why a certain guy doesn't ask you out, but you're NOT thinking, "it must be for the same reasons that i'm not asking him out," you ought to have your heads examined. seriously.

you want the benefits of equality with men, but none of the responsibilities that come with this equality. modern men are well aware of this. the curious thing is why more modern women seem so f______n clueless. you (modern women) think you're so smart because many of you have university degrees and good jobs, yet you continue to ask yourselves questions like, "why doesn't he like me?" and you continue to expect men to AUTOMATICALLY pay for dinner.

come one ladies. give your brains a chance. we guys are becoming aware of your scam. it won't be long until you won't get a date until you do roughly half the asking. it's only a question of time. the times, they are a changin.

Norm Dawley said...

and if you're thinking, "well,if he won't ask me out, he won't get to have sex with me then," well hey, we're not gettin any anyway. it can't get any worse. we might as well put the ball in your lap for a change. see how you like it.

eventually, i think women will start asking men out more, and will start paying for dinner or won't view going dutch (the woman and the man each paying for themselves) as a drawback in a guy. it's just going to take time.

we're in the throes of many changes right now: the internet, geopolitics, environmental degradation, energy innovation. the mating game is just another aspect of modern society that is fundamentally changing as we speak.

Norm Dawley said...

men are part of the problem too. guys, we've got to stop thinking that girls who ask guys out are sluts! maybe they just want someone to go out with for a change.

so it goes both ways. both girls and guys have to change their thinking and their behavior. girls have to start accepting some of the responsibility of asking guys out, and guys have to stop viewing girls who do as sluts.

that's my story and i'm stickin to it!

Airtight said...

Well read posts by many of the men. I'll add that men don't ask women out because it is a losing gamble. Lay persons at understanding social dynamics (which is everyone by default) don't even consider that there are intracies to social interaction. 'Attraction', (dating)'value' and standards of dating protocol are social/scientific standards conditioned by society and supported by natural scientific realities. - In other words; people are what society makes them to be, and people like & value what society wants them to like.

Asking a woman out not only has potential of fault in the mode of the 'asking', but in the product the man is peddling, which is himself as a dating partner to a woman. Since men rarely get feedback (as was noted in earlier posts) and techniques of 'asking' seem to illicit random results, men have almost no idea what they are doing with asking women out even if they do 'ball up' and force it. It's like going out and fishing for hours on end not having any idea what the hell you are doing. - Trying everything from throwing rocks at fish, putting a pan in the water hoping fish will wander in, trying to catch them bare handed, etc.. . Men by default have no idea how to go about the process of persuading women to date (and most men aren't even aware that they persuasion would be part of the process at all); and this alone would discourage a person from wasting time attempting. Add to this an obvious resentment men hold against women that they need to put forth so much effort towards something presumadely a joint social activity, and really the better question is 'Why DO men ask women out (when they do)?'.

The reality is that a man needs to be a super duper master persuader to have any sort of efficacy with 'asking women out'. There is no such thing as 'luck' in this regard; you have to really know what the hell you are doing or otherwise be 1. Incredibly socially valuable 2.Very socially open (i.e., you meet many people) 3. Have almost a disorder of the psyche's ego and esteem to where he seems to not register what is conditioned as a social defeat to most people.

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Anonymous said...

What a load of shit. Why don't you women ask men out yourselves if it bothers you so much. You never do. Men don't have to do everything for you. God women's self-entitled attitudes are so sickening.

dave said...

Wow! Great discussion! I was
"rejected" ou of this very ugly
game years ago, falling into a life that just does not include women at all.
I would have welcomed, with
great honor, ANY approach from a
fmale who showed interest in me.
I am just having a real problem
trying to imagine that it could ever happen.

Charles said...

I don't think biology causes women to refuse to take initiative towards men---it's upbringing. Their mothers told them not to do it. So women eliminate a whole range of men from their choices because women refuse to ask. Also, when presented a chance to relate to a "nice" guy, it's all too well known he must be turned down like he's puke stew. The first woman I wanted was so cold, one day (age 16) she started acting friendly. I thought, this looks hopeful. She asked to borrow my bicycle, so I said yes. She used it to go visit the bully who was picking on me! Second woman I was turned down by, flirted with me 12 to 15 times before I ever asked her out. She went out with me only once, then turned totally cold towards me. She married a drug dealer who was also an interstate kidnapper (and had 3 piglets by him, who I do hope all went into the justice system like their bastard father, whose middle name wasn't Wayne, but almost as bad---Ray)! The last 3 women who turned me down (numbers 29, 30 & 31) knew I was a millionaire several times over and still rejected me. One of them wanted to change her mind 11 months after the fact (she chose a fool paying child support to me, a multimillionaire). I told her verbatim, "If I step in hog shit, I wouldn't wipe it off onto you, because it would be an affront to the hog shit!" Men everywhere should refuse to speak to any women unless women speak to them first. Let women run the risk of rejection---it's seriously negative. I'm glad I have a dog I can go to and get a warm feeling, women are SO GD cold, but they hell well want felons and men who'll work them over! I see them sitting within 2 millimeters of road rage tailgaters! With me, the rules are, the woman has to take the initiative to meet me, because if a decision to reject is made, I have to be inflicting it---not being hit with it.

cmw said...

Wow, such negativity! I'm going to try to clear up some misconceptions you men seem to have although I highly doubt some of you who have commented will take me seriously and really listen to what I have to say. I will also add some comments that I think women do need to hear as well.

First of all, women want to be asked out by men rather than the other way around because we believe there is a natural rhythm to dating. We believe this is really a biologically driven act that no change in social norms will ever undo. Where does this belief come from? There are several sources, countless books for one thing. It also comes from attractive women's very bad experiences with very attractive men. I'm talking about men that, for want of a better expression, have a lot of game, i.e. they know how to easily attract lots of women. Who knows why, maybe they are convicts, maybe their attractive millionaires, whatever the reason they have game. Those guys are looking for a mate too, we'll call this the Charlie Sheen effect. However, they get women into bed so easily that they have trouble actually forming a meaningful relationship with any woman and can never get what they really want, a real relationship. Women who have fallen into this trap and have suffered a lot of pain, have come to believe that to get that guy the next time they meet one, they must let the guy come to them and they have to make sure the guy really likes her which takes a lot of time, you can't rush into things. Male must pursue female, just as it is in nature. If you do it the other way around, it just gets all messed up. I am just trying to explain to you guys that women have been conditioned through bad experiences of their own to see dating this way.

Now I'm going to address the issue that women need to hear which is the same point many of you men have made. I just thought some women might listen to this more if it also came from a woman. I have tried asking men out and I have to admit it is freaking hard and terrifying. Not only did I try doing this in coffee shops with random strangers, I also did it with online dating. My experience is, yes, just about every guy I asked out would go out with me unless they were in a committed relationship (that happened asking out random strangers in a coffee shop). However, getting a guy to really like me - that was impossible! When I did the asking, the guy had the attitude... "Why should I like you? Proove it to me." That was impossible. So I have found it immensely easier to let guys ask me out and to see where things go. Then he is trying to get me to like him. I also will go out with any, any, any guy who asks me out because I know how much courage it takes to ask someone out. I also try very hard to see if it can work with that guy, unlike the treatment I received from the men I asked out because I know how hard it is to convince the other person to like you. Women, I agree with the men out there, you should have to go through the process of asking a guy out and see what it's like on the other side of the fence. I say this because I have to agree with the men on this blog, women treat men like SHIIIIIIIIIIIT! AND YOU WOMEN WONDER WHY MEN DON'T AKS WOMEN OUT? Because you treat men like SHIIIIIIIT! That's why.

cmw said...

I'm going to address one more issue and that's money, as in who pays for the date, and chivalry. I am a feminist and I resent any comment in which feminism is being blamed for bad dating habits. I'm just going to express my personal feelings on these matters, however I do admit that everyone is unique in their opinion. I am not from the deep South and I'm very independent. I personally don't like it when men in general treat me as though I am too weak to do things for myself like driving somewhere. I say this because I had a very bad feeling about this when I had to live in the South, it just smacks of women needing to be coddled and taken care of. I can take care of myself. However, anything a guy does on a date to be chivalrous, while it's not necessary, I do really like it because to me it feels like the guy cares about me and is trying to make a good impression. I love that and I love the guy even more for going out of his way. So that's how I feel about chivalry. Regarding who pays for the date and feminism. I believe that in essence it boils down to each person should contribute on the basis of what they have to bring to the table. In other words if we both have good jobs then I see nothing wrong with going dutch. However, if one person has a good job and the other does not, then I don't think this should be even. In essence I just think it should be fair. In everything in the relationship whether it's washing the clothes (should the relationship progress this far), paying for dinner, or whatever, it should be relatively fair. No one person should be doing all the contributing. Unfortunately in this day and age, women still earn $0.77 on the dollar that men make so more often than not the guy will end up being the person that pays. God knows, I hope some time in my life time this changes. I also will add that women are truly amazing in how they EXPECT men to pay for everything and are disgustingly unappreciative. Now having said all of this, I will also add that I do believe a guy should go out of his way somewhat in the beginning of the courtship for several reasons: 1) If he has to make an effort he tends to appreciate what he has much more 2) I want to make sure he does not take me for granted. I look at it this way: the best a guy is ever going to treat me is during the courtship, it’s down hill from there so I pay a lot of attention to how he treats me in the beginning of the relationship. If he doesn’t pass muster, he has to hit the road. and finally 3) If I really like that guy, I want to make sure he is good and wrapped around my finger before I become good and wrapped around his finger. I believe this is necessary to create balance in the relationship in the future. I tend to be a giver but I just want to make sure that guy is giving to me too or else the relationship will never work.

So that's my long winded 2 cents. Now, why aren’t you guys asking me out? Just kidding.

dave said...

Ms. CMW - Great comments! I still see that there is a place where you and your sisters still guard with your lives, and that is that the man has to "earn" it somehow and "pass muster" and get wrapped around YOUR finger.
That is NOT balance and it does not take a serial killing ,womenhating man to say that. The double standard goes on!

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Are women heads up to the fact that; asking out/a guy becoming a suitor, leads to the production of a dowry and wedding ring?

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